Jeff Abramson
Jeff Abramson, Director, Forum on the Arms Trade – September 2024
interviewed by Kaya Nadesan and Ellie Shackleton
Was it always your intention to work in disarmament or the arms trade field, or did you take a roundabout and unconventional route to get to where you are?
I definitely took a roundabout way to this field. Sometimes I'm asked how I ended up in this Forum, and my story isn’t very compelling. I think it's my third career, and what's interesting is that growing up, I really didn't have a ton of interest in solving international problems. I had never left the country.
I was in the field of education. Originally, I went to grad school, wanting to figure out how to impact policy. I got a policy degree, and I wanted to work on international issues, and the only international class at the school at the time was on arms control. So that's how I ended up, roughly in this field academically. I've been inspired by the people who are in this field because it more directly impacts their lives in a real, meaningful way.
Could you tell us about your first role in the field? What was it, how did you find it and what was your experience?
When I finished grad school, I knew I wanted to get involved in international issues, but all I had was a little bit of study. I had no practical work experience, I hadn't worked for anybody for real, and I hadn't really traveled the country. My partner got the job that moved us to Washington DC and I think I did 50 informational interviews and it really took me a long time. But I was in my early 30’s so I was seen by people as not brand new.
I had some openings and possibilities, but I ended up working in a place called the Arms Control Association, and I applied for two jobs there. One was a policy job, and one was being the number two for their monthly publication, which was a pretty well-respected publication. When I interviewed for the publication, they didn't even realize I had applied for the policy job, because my resume must not have been very impressive. So, I took a job that I had some previous experience in with writing newsletters, but it wasn’t what I really wanted to be doing.
What brought you to apply for those roles, and what do you think made you stand out?
I think what made me stand out was that I had some experience in editing and putting publications together. At that point, I was a little bit older, so I'd had some interesting work experiences that I think made me look attractive in ways. I had a good college degree also.
But, as part of my interviews, people said, “hey, if you can get a job at this place, you should try. They don't pay very well, but they are well connected, and do really good work”. So another part of it was that I considered working there because people told me it was a good place to work. So that's another interesting way of thinking about figuring out your space in the field.
So in and after your first role, what did you find most valuable and helpful in your career progression?
There's lots of things and it's going to be different for everybody, but the Arms Control Association was known for its nuclear weapons work, more broadly on weapons of mass destruction. They didn't do a ton on conventional weapons - they did do some, and I made myself useful. I decided I wanted to try to work in this issue space, and I kind of created a role for myself. But I think one of the things that happens in your first job is, if you're lucky, it's a job where you can explore and develop your own expertise, and they’ll find a way to value that, and then you can parlay that into something else.
I remember the first time I reached out to talk to someone about learning about conventional weapons issues, and from there I built a community in Washington, DC. Eventually that led into being involved in the Arms Trade Treaty and Control Arms - they were happy to have someone from the United States involved. This led me to other things, but really, I think I developed a bit of expertise in an area, and that helped me carve out space.
If you had to do it all again, would you do anything differently?
I've always taken not the straight path to things, including starting this Forum. So I try not to look back and second guess. I think there's always ways you can do better. I think it might be hard to believe this, but I find that I'm still bashful, and I think putting yourself out there, making yourself talk with people, you can always do that better. And I think that I could have done that better.
I also had an opportunity in grad school to write on something in the nuclear field, and I didn't do a great job. I probably could have done a much better academic job to set myself up to have some more of those research-based and writing skills. There's still opportunities that come my way and I realize in hindsight, “I should have written on this topic when it was hot or I should have taken this interview opportunity.” There are always times you can second guess, just try not to do it too much.
Are there any key things, or any advice you would give to people who are trying to get into this field?
The first piece of advice is, it's hard. This isn't a well-funded field. It can be frustrating. It's difficult, and it can be depressing. That's not a thing to start with, but I think it's true. I think if you are able to be patient, you have to be. The path that most of us go by is not the one we expected.
I do think you have to network and go meet people. I think the Emerging Expert program is a great way to get to know other people, or get exposure, so I recommend taking advantage of those opportunities. If you're able to write, having the option to get published in some way is always good. Once you're doing something, you’ve got to dig in on it. Make yourself an expert on it, even if it's not necessarily the first thing that you want to be an expert on, because that'll make you valuable.
Hopefully then the people who are your leaders where you work will speak well of you to others. You have that core issue you are known for, or good at, that you can then parlay into something else you might want to do. There are areas that are like weeds, where you just have to dig in and go through the weeds early on even though they won’t be fun.
What are some best practices for job searching in this field? You mentioned networking, could you expand on that?
I think that networking is probably the most critical thing - looking to see what other organizations are doing, and asking to talk to people. But you know, having that gumption to go out and sort of just ask, “hey, I'd like to chat with you about the work you do.” I think being curious about other positions or other places is helpful. I guess it just takes time, which not everyone has.
I’m privileged to work in this field. Sometimes a lot of people are already privileged, which is an existing problem in the field. Figuring out how to diversify the field, including for people who can't afford to do an unpaid internship, is a challenge. And I do think, if you can, tell people you know that you're looking around. Get some more people keeping their eyes open for you, it's helpful.
Do you have advice or motivation for early career professionals, particularly on staying motivated in the face of rejection?
It's tough and I think there's a few things that I would say. The first is to find a cadre of people like you or at your stage of your profession that you can commiserate with. Go to the happy hours. It really is helpful to have a community that you feel supports you, and it takes work to build that.
There are two other things, one is to know why you're doing this. If you're hitting setbacks, and it makes you question whether you want to be in this field, that might be a time to try something else. I mean, it sounds terrible to say that, but the other piece of this is to celebrate the little wins. Don't beat yourself up, appreciate what you've accomplished.
I have a little folder in my Google Drive that is labeled “successes.” I mean, it can be like “a reporter picked up something someone in the Forum did” or it's a nice note that somebody wrote. It's nice to have those, because our work is hard, and the policy successes are few, and the odds against us, they're stacked in a lot of ways. In terms of being discouraged, I think it’s important to know that many other people, some of whom you may now look up to, also probably struggled in the past.
Have you ever felt frustrated within the field? How do you deal with the frustration?
I think there are multiple avenues for frustration, and I want to talk about two of them. There's the obvious avenue of frustration, which is that you don't win your argument, right? The public policy, or the arm sale that you think is horrible, happens. You know, all those bad things go on. This is where I think having a community, knowing that there are other people who are doing this work, is super helpful. If you're super passionate about something and you feel like your work is essential, it's sometimes hard to step back and realize that this is a tough task. I find inspiration to keep going by knowing the other people I've met who are doing it, and I feel like I'm super privileged. I didn't come to this because I've been directly impacted by armed violence. I haven't lived in the world affected by cluster munitions, for example, but I've met people who have and I've always found meeting them and being inspired by them is super helpful. So that's one source of frustration, the policies we don't win.
And I think being honest about what we can do differently next time is helpful.
The other part of the frustration, to be honest, is there are times where people within the community might not agree with you. There are times where they might put you down. There are times of disagreement, there are times of bifurcation. And you might find yourself in disagreement with or being put down by others, and that can be very difficult also. And to some extent, that's going to be an internal strength issue. You might have those who still agree with you, but I think at some level, you've got to believe in yourself, which is a weird way to get through a disappointing time. I think it's important to learn and grow and do better and change where you need to. But I think it’s also important to trust that you're doing the best you can and that you're adding value. I think that can be hard, because we all have doubts, because of the issues, and also just about whether we are making a difference.
interviewed by Kaya Nadesan and Ellie Shackleton
Was it always your intention to work in disarmament or the arms trade field, or did you take a roundabout and unconventional route to get to where you are?
I definitely took a roundabout way to this field. Sometimes I'm asked how I ended up in this Forum, and my story isn’t very compelling. I think it's my third career, and what's interesting is that growing up, I really didn't have a ton of interest in solving international problems. I had never left the country.
I was in the field of education. Originally, I went to grad school, wanting to figure out how to impact policy. I got a policy degree, and I wanted to work on international issues, and the only international class at the school at the time was on arms control. So that's how I ended up, roughly in this field academically. I've been inspired by the people who are in this field because it more directly impacts their lives in a real, meaningful way.
Could you tell us about your first role in the field? What was it, how did you find it and what was your experience?
When I finished grad school, I knew I wanted to get involved in international issues, but all I had was a little bit of study. I had no practical work experience, I hadn't worked for anybody for real, and I hadn't really traveled the country. My partner got the job that moved us to Washington DC and I think I did 50 informational interviews and it really took me a long time. But I was in my early 30’s so I was seen by people as not brand new.
I had some openings and possibilities, but I ended up working in a place called the Arms Control Association, and I applied for two jobs there. One was a policy job, and one was being the number two for their monthly publication, which was a pretty well-respected publication. When I interviewed for the publication, they didn't even realize I had applied for the policy job, because my resume must not have been very impressive. So, I took a job that I had some previous experience in with writing newsletters, but it wasn’t what I really wanted to be doing.
What brought you to apply for those roles, and what do you think made you stand out?
I think what made me stand out was that I had some experience in editing and putting publications together. At that point, I was a little bit older, so I'd had some interesting work experiences that I think made me look attractive in ways. I had a good college degree also.
But, as part of my interviews, people said, “hey, if you can get a job at this place, you should try. They don't pay very well, but they are well connected, and do really good work”. So another part of it was that I considered working there because people told me it was a good place to work. So that's another interesting way of thinking about figuring out your space in the field.
So in and after your first role, what did you find most valuable and helpful in your career progression?
There's lots of things and it's going to be different for everybody, but the Arms Control Association was known for its nuclear weapons work, more broadly on weapons of mass destruction. They didn't do a ton on conventional weapons - they did do some, and I made myself useful. I decided I wanted to try to work in this issue space, and I kind of created a role for myself. But I think one of the things that happens in your first job is, if you're lucky, it's a job where you can explore and develop your own expertise, and they’ll find a way to value that, and then you can parlay that into something else.
I remember the first time I reached out to talk to someone about learning about conventional weapons issues, and from there I built a community in Washington, DC. Eventually that led into being involved in the Arms Trade Treaty and Control Arms - they were happy to have someone from the United States involved. This led me to other things, but really, I think I developed a bit of expertise in an area, and that helped me carve out space.
If you had to do it all again, would you do anything differently?
I've always taken not the straight path to things, including starting this Forum. So I try not to look back and second guess. I think there's always ways you can do better. I think it might be hard to believe this, but I find that I'm still bashful, and I think putting yourself out there, making yourself talk with people, you can always do that better. And I think that I could have done that better.
I also had an opportunity in grad school to write on something in the nuclear field, and I didn't do a great job. I probably could have done a much better academic job to set myself up to have some more of those research-based and writing skills. There's still opportunities that come my way and I realize in hindsight, “I should have written on this topic when it was hot or I should have taken this interview opportunity.” There are always times you can second guess, just try not to do it too much.
Are there any key things, or any advice you would give to people who are trying to get into this field?
The first piece of advice is, it's hard. This isn't a well-funded field. It can be frustrating. It's difficult, and it can be depressing. That's not a thing to start with, but I think it's true. I think if you are able to be patient, you have to be. The path that most of us go by is not the one we expected.
I do think you have to network and go meet people. I think the Emerging Expert program is a great way to get to know other people, or get exposure, so I recommend taking advantage of those opportunities. If you're able to write, having the option to get published in some way is always good. Once you're doing something, you’ve got to dig in on it. Make yourself an expert on it, even if it's not necessarily the first thing that you want to be an expert on, because that'll make you valuable.
Hopefully then the people who are your leaders where you work will speak well of you to others. You have that core issue you are known for, or good at, that you can then parlay into something else you might want to do. There are areas that are like weeds, where you just have to dig in and go through the weeds early on even though they won’t be fun.
What are some best practices for job searching in this field? You mentioned networking, could you expand on that?
I think that networking is probably the most critical thing - looking to see what other organizations are doing, and asking to talk to people. But you know, having that gumption to go out and sort of just ask, “hey, I'd like to chat with you about the work you do.” I think being curious about other positions or other places is helpful. I guess it just takes time, which not everyone has.
I’m privileged to work in this field. Sometimes a lot of people are already privileged, which is an existing problem in the field. Figuring out how to diversify the field, including for people who can't afford to do an unpaid internship, is a challenge. And I do think, if you can, tell people you know that you're looking around. Get some more people keeping their eyes open for you, it's helpful.
Do you have advice or motivation for early career professionals, particularly on staying motivated in the face of rejection?
It's tough and I think there's a few things that I would say. The first is to find a cadre of people like you or at your stage of your profession that you can commiserate with. Go to the happy hours. It really is helpful to have a community that you feel supports you, and it takes work to build that.
There are two other things, one is to know why you're doing this. If you're hitting setbacks, and it makes you question whether you want to be in this field, that might be a time to try something else. I mean, it sounds terrible to say that, but the other piece of this is to celebrate the little wins. Don't beat yourself up, appreciate what you've accomplished.
I have a little folder in my Google Drive that is labeled “successes.” I mean, it can be like “a reporter picked up something someone in the Forum did” or it's a nice note that somebody wrote. It's nice to have those, because our work is hard, and the policy successes are few, and the odds against us, they're stacked in a lot of ways. In terms of being discouraged, I think it’s important to know that many other people, some of whom you may now look up to, also probably struggled in the past.
Have you ever felt frustrated within the field? How do you deal with the frustration?
I think there are multiple avenues for frustration, and I want to talk about two of them. There's the obvious avenue of frustration, which is that you don't win your argument, right? The public policy, or the arm sale that you think is horrible, happens. You know, all those bad things go on. This is where I think having a community, knowing that there are other people who are doing this work, is super helpful. If you're super passionate about something and you feel like your work is essential, it's sometimes hard to step back and realize that this is a tough task. I find inspiration to keep going by knowing the other people I've met who are doing it, and I feel like I'm super privileged. I didn't come to this because I've been directly impacted by armed violence. I haven't lived in the world affected by cluster munitions, for example, but I've met people who have and I've always found meeting them and being inspired by them is super helpful. So that's one source of frustration, the policies we don't win.
And I think being honest about what we can do differently next time is helpful.
The other part of the frustration, to be honest, is there are times where people within the community might not agree with you. There are times where they might put you down. There are times of disagreement, there are times of bifurcation. And you might find yourself in disagreement with or being put down by others, and that can be very difficult also. And to some extent, that's going to be an internal strength issue. You might have those who still agree with you, but I think at some level, you've got to believe in yourself, which is a weird way to get through a disappointing time. I think it's important to learn and grow and do better and change where you need to. But I think it’s also important to trust that you're doing the best you can and that you're adding value. I think that can be hard, because we all have doubts, because of the issues, and also just about whether we are making a difference.